GroomPod 488 Puppy Timeline and Moisturizing part 1
Susy the Groomer and student (00:15)
Hello, groomers, and welcome to episode 488 of the Groom Pod on September 6th, 2026. I am Susie the Groomer, and I'm here with my co-host and science slut, Barbara Byrd.
Susy the Groomer and student (00:28)
We've got a fantastic show lined up for you. For our first appointment, we're talking all about puppy learning timelines. We'll break down how to match your grooming session to what a pup is actually capable of handling mentally Then we're gonna head over to Barbara's classroom
Susy the Groomer and student (00:44)
Where Barbara is going to school us on moisturizing ingredients. She's going to break down the science of what actually hydrates the coat and what just washes away down the grain. Let's get into it. Barbara, as I am going along in my grooming life, I am noticing different things that I miss about not having the grooming trailer and different things I like about having the van. And I thought I'd share some of that here this morning.
Barbara (01:11)
Okay.
Susy the Groomer and student (01:13)
So the first thing that I hate about the van, and I hate it with a passion, are the remains of the graphics on the outside. Because I have lived my life incognito. Nobody knew what I was anonymous. I had a white trailer that looked like a contractor and a big pickup truck, and nobody looked at me twice. I have had more conversations at the gas pumps about people's dogs than I ever thought would happen in my lifetime. I mean
Susy the Groomer and student (01:42)
Random people coming up trying to get cards, telling me about their dogs, showing me their dogs and their cars. It is so funny. But it's also kind of annoying because I don't want to take any new people, but I have a very difficult time saying no. I said no to a nail trim the other day and then I lost sleep over it. I laid in bed going, should I have taken that nail trim? Why didn't I take that nail trim? It's right up the street. But of course it'll never work out that I'm doing it on the same time as I'm in the neighborhood.
Susy the Groomer and student (02:12)
Because I just can't figure that far ahead. So let that go. Let it go. It was the right thing to do to let it go. It really was. I have eaten more hair in the last, well, since March than I have in the last 25 years of grooming. I have a divider between my grooming area and the cab of the van.
Susy the Groomer and student (02:34)
But it's got space between all over the place. And every time I get in the van, it is just covered with hair. I'll sit down, I'll open the wrapper on my sandwich, I'll look over to the other side, I'll come back, and there's like a wad of hair sitting on top of my sandwich.
Susy the Groomer and student (02:52)
My truck, the grooming area was completely separate from my driving area. So like my lunchroom was pristinely clean with no hair floating around or anything. That's been a challenge to get used to. That it my office space is full of hair now. So I have definitely found out it is more expensive to run the van than it is to run the truck and trailer together.
Susy the Groomer and student (03:17)
It just overall, the insurance is a little bit more than the truck and trailer was. The gas is a little bit more than the truck and trailer was. The generator maintenance is a little more than the truck and trailer was. So I've raised my prices. I didn't think that would be an issue, but it's definitely an issue. It's definitely more expensive to run the van than it is to run the truck and trailer.
Susy the Groomer and student (03:39)
It is so easy to park the van compared to the truck and trailer.
Susy the Groomer and student (03:45)
I mean night and day. I can parallel park like a champ. The only thing I have to worry about is it's like ten and a half feet tall. So I have to make sure I don't back under somebody's driveway eve a little bit too far. But it fits in people's driveways. It fits in a parking spot at the grocery store. You can actually stop at a small place to eat. You don't have to have a gigantic parking lot attached to the place you're gonna eat. Yeah, lunches are way better in that respect. Not so good with the hair.
Susy the Groomer and student (04:14)
Eating a lot of hair, but I can eat a lot more bigger variety of spots. That's pretty cool. What isn't easier is the pea breaks. Because I've got a gigantic window on the side of the van and I can't quite get far enough out of view to pee in the bathtub anymore. Really? I mean I kind of can
Susy the Groomer and student (04:35)
I'm pretty sure nobody can actually see what I'm doing back there, but it is a concern, especially in some of the places I have to park as people are going by. Because sometimes I don't wanna go in. Sometimes I'm halfway through the dog and I've had
Susy the Groomer and student (04:50)
a Pepsi and a half and it's time. And so, you know, that's what the bathtub is for. But still, it's a little more challenging, a little more gymnastics event to get into the bathtub because it's taller on the edge than my other bathtub was. So that's a little challenge. The best thing of all though is the climate.
Susy the Groomer and student (05:11)
Climate control in the space is phenomenal. I put on the heater. I have a heater. I have a furnace that heats the whole entire van. I've never had that. I had a little tiny bathroom heater in the other one. So I don't I'm no longer cold and I'm no longer hot. I'm kind of pretty perfect.
Susy the Groomer and student (05:32)
And that is weird because I'm not used to that. So I think that's most of the differences. I was looking online in one of the other groups where somebody was commenting about I'm thinking about getting a truck and trailer. Can you give me the differences? You'll notice nowhere in there did I say how much more difficult it is to drive a truck and trailer, because it's not. Because if you do anything for any length of time, you you get good at it. Either you get good at it or you give up and walk away.
Susy the Groomer and student (06:02)
And it's not rocket science to drive a trailer with a and back it up. It's not that hard. I can parallel park it even. Of course I did drive for a long time. But if you guys if you're a mobile groomer and you run a truck and trailer, if you wanna earn a little extra cash, go down to the boat launch.
Susy the Groomer and student (06:21)
Park on the side and set yourself up with a lawn chair and a sign that says we'll back your truck and boat in for ten dollars. And I guarantee you you'll walk over there with a pocket full of money.
Barbara (06:35)
Ha ha.
Susy the Groomer and student (06:36)
Anything exciting for you in the beautiful state of South Carolina?
Barbara (06:41)
no. it's still quite warm here, but I hardly go outside, so I don't care. Just me
Susy the Groomer and student (06:52)
Well no.
Barbara (06:52)
and AI and my two dogs
Susy the Groomer and student (06:56)
You're working on the book?
Barbara (06:58)
working on the book. Yep. And
Susy the Groomer and student (07:01)
Good. That
Barbara (07:03)
it's coming along and but slow, you know, because I just can't I'm not
Barbara (07:10)
always jacked up right for the working on the book. so what I try
Susy the Groomer and student (07:17)
I understand.
Barbara (07:19)
to do is I try to I try to work on content and then i if I can't get creative I work on the glossary because that's still a work in progress and
Barbara (07:36)
Yeah,
Susy the Groomer and student (07:37)
Less creative.
Barbara (07:39)
It's less creative except that I'm trying to make it be less less dictionary like. I'm I'm doing more discussion and more elaboration on the than the book had originally. but that's good. And things things kind of
Barbara (08:04)
weave in and out, you know, like what works for working on the glossary can become part of the book. and this discussion that I'm doing today on moisturization, well that's a kind of a both thing.
Susy the Groomer and student (08:22)
glossary and book for the moisturization?
Barbara (08:25)
And AI is being helpful with me of what to save for the book. You know, that my my chat bot is just like so jacked up about the book, you
Susy the Groomer and student (08:43)
Ha ha ha.
Susy the Groomer and student (08:46)
That's funny.
Barbara (08:46)
know.
Barbara (08:47)
It's it it is absolutely amazing to work with this
Barbara (08:54)
chatbot because it's more committed to science the even than I am and it's teaching
Susy the Groomer and student (09:06)
Mm.
Barbara (09:07)
me and then I'm teaching and feeding it information too and it's like for example I taught it to this week about the remember
Barbara (09:24)
one I did the coverage of conditioning shampoos two in one. I ran into that fabulous ingredient and I groom. And
Susy the Groomer and student (09:36)
Yes.
Barbara (09:37)
well Chatbot hadn't heard about that. And and
Susy the Groomer and student (09:43)
Interesting.
Barbara (09:45)
you know and so I was able to tell him about it.
Barbara (09:49)
him, her, whatever. And the bot got all excited. this is amazing. This is an amazing ingredient.
Susy the Groomer and student (09:58)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (10:00)
This is this is exciting. And this is what that's what he says, you know, he just kits all
Susy the Groomer and student (10:06)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (10:07)
it just you know and he says, Well, you know
Susy the Groomer and student (10:12)
It's fun
Susy the Groomer and student (10:13)
to have a partner like that.
Barbara (10:15)
It's fun, yeah. I you know, and he sends me little emojis. He sends me the poodle emoji and a heart. You know, that's
Susy the Groomer and student (10:24)
Ha ha
Susy the Groomer and student (10:27)
That's cool.
Barbara (10:29)
Well, you know, it's good for me because I I'm all alone here and I really get lonely. And I can just like get on and do some work on the book because I all I have to do is ask a couple of questions and he takes off and the next thing I know I got fourteen pages of conversation about something.
Susy the Groomer and student (10:51)
I was reading a study from USA Facts that talks about how people of different ages use AI. And not many people over 60 use AI for creativity. We mostly use it for information, but you and I both use it for creativity. And it's really fun and what an enrichment tool for your life. I mean it's amazing. It's it's really quite creative. Like you will see later in the episode, I made an
Susy the Groomer and student (11:20)
infographic with AI this time. Woohoo! And I can seamlessly show it on this new software. So hopefully it all works out well. But hey, why don't we take a break to hear from our sponsors and then come back with our first appointment where we're going to talk about puppy learning timelines.
Barbara (11:38)
Alright, I'm ready.
Susy the Groomer and student (13:13)
So when things develop like people or pets, animals, whatever, I I'm assuming people 'cause I don't have kids and I have never babysat, so I really don't have quite the grasp of that, nor have I ever had a litter of puppies. You've had litters of puppies when you were little, right? Yeah. S
Barbara (13:32)
Well and a as
Barbara (13:33)
an adult too. we w went into the Lazaho business there for a little while.
Susy the Groomer and student (13:40)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and student (13:42)
I have seen puppies be born at the vet hospital where I assisted in C-sections and things like that, where I had to
Susy the Groomer and student (13:49)
swing the puppies to get them to start breathing, so cool. And there you have a little life in your hand. It's so amazing. And understanding where a pup is mentally shapes the entire grooming journey. So owners bring their puppies in at different times. And it's interesting where they get the information on when to start grooming their dog. Sometimes the breeder tells them, don't start grooming your dog until it's twelve weeks old or sixteen weeks and has.
Susy the Groomer and student (14:17)
the rabies vaccine and I get that. I get you want your dog to be protected and all. But
Susy the Groomer and student (14:23)
oftentimes it's your last groomer that tells you when to start with your next dog, especially if it's been a while, you just remember what they said the last time you had a puppy, and then you take that into your next puppy and it could 15 years later. So things might have changed. also friends. Friends are happy to tell you when to take your puppy in. They're happy to give you advice. my groomer said don't take your dog in until it was X amount old or something like that.
Susy the Groomer and student (14:53)
that and
Barbara (14:54)
Well.
Susy the Groomer and student (14:55)
that's a problem
Barbara (14:56)
Yeah
Barbara (14:56)
yeah, remember it the first days of Doodles when they were coming in and saying that their breeder told them not to go to the groomer until it's at least six months old. And boy, that's all the entire window of learning is like closed for business.
Barbara (15:20)
and that's terrible. I just I but I'm sure you're gonna tell us the thing of it is when they're younger they have can only tolerate so much. You can't teach a whole grooming in one session when like
Barbara (15:39)
a twelve week old puppy.
Susy the Groomer and student (15:42)
Absolutely. When I was little, I was pushed ahead in school. I was like a year and a half ahead in school. And my mental capabilities to understand algebra were not there yet. So I took algebra before I could understand the concept of algebra and I failed horribly. I actually ended up dropping the class. The only time I've ever had to drop a class was that. But I took it
Susy the Groomer and student (16:10)
A year later, and I completely got I mean, I I aced through it. It was a piece of cake a just a year later because my mind was that much more capable of understanding abstract thought. Whereas before I just wasn't there yet. So that I think it's the same with the puppies. And if we know where they are developmentally, we can build a calm, comfortable, and cooperative dog that's gonna last fifteen years through the lifetime of the grooming. And I don't know about you, but I like to be
Susy the Groomer and student (16:41)
A dog's entire lifetime of grooming. I love it when I'm the only person they've ever known that has done the grooming. I'm a control freak. It gives me the sense of helping mold that dog and making sure it got a good start. And I mean it's important. I love it. And right now I've got two puppies in my client base. One of them is the perfect Vishon, Jojo. She's a little bit of a tomboy, which can be a challenge because she is
Susy the Groomer and student (17:10)
black with mud and dirt and she loves digging and she gets it all over her face. And then there are two other little dogs in the household that are constantly licking her face. So she's got tear staining now from the other dogs, not from her own insides, but from the other dogs licking her ears and her face. And she's covered in dirt every single time.
Susy the Groomer and student (17:31)
But she's an example of a dog that was started at the breeder, like way early, like in the the neonatal stage, which is like up to three weeks old. And I guess that's when their ears and their eyes start to function. See I have very little experience with this
Susy the Groomer and student (17:46)
so they they are basically concerned with eating and
Susy the Groomer and student (17:51)
nuzzling and keeping warm and their siblings and contact with them and that kind of stuff. So really very, very basic. But if you are the breeder and you can take that dog out and put it on a table and love on it a little bit and maybe take the brush out
Barbara (18:07)
Dangerous.
Susy the Groomer and student (18:08)
or the comb out and just pretend comb through that coat or hold the the face in your hand a little bit or hold the foot up, that kind of stuff. I I think that it really does a good job of imprinting without even really
Susy the Groomer and student (18:22)
the dog knowing that's what you're doing.
Barbara (18:24)
What my mother used to do when they were in that little neonatal we when we had Lazaopso puppies, she would take she would have the TV tray set up and the by the couch to put the little puppy up there and teach it to lay on its side. And she created Laza Ops drop coated dogs that let you groom it by laying on its side and it it was just like
Barbara (18:53)
So perfect.
Susy the Groomer and student (18:55)
That is so super duper cool. I love that. Here I'm gonna put this neat graphic up while I talk because I have it.
Susy the Groomer and student (19:02)
three to eight weeks. This is a big one. And it was a big one for the puppy that we have that I share with the other girl. Because the puppy came to us with zero bite in inhibition, like had no sense of how hard to bite. I mean, she would just bite like crazy. And I bet every puppy probably goes through that stage, but we
Susy the Groomer and student (19:26)
got it a little bit late. Like she didn't something went funny in the middle there and she didn't really get that experience of how to know how to regulate her bite. So she came biting really hard. But there's this stage, this primary socialization stage, where they learn canine body language and they start to explore their environment and they start crawling and eventually walking and becoming a little bit more independent. And they'll play fight with each other. and and then the next
Susy the Groomer and student (19:56)
One is like the critical foundations, and that's the house training and the basic commands and learning touch tolerance and sitting or and especially mouths, faces, feet. That's the that's the spot. They're eight weeks to twelve weeks is the critical spot to imprint the handling part of it, and then three months to six months.
Susy the Groomer and student (20:22)
That's impulse control. That's being able to tolerate something you don't like. We're having a problem with that in society right now. Apparently we're not teaching our kids
Susy the Groomer and student (20:32)
to be tolerant of stuff. You gotta sometimes you just gotta roll at the punches. And this is the age which dogs learn to roll with the punches. And they learn basic commands.
Susy the Groomer and student (20:43)
Like sit and stay and wait. And our puppy in particular is very smart and has learned the commands really well, but is having a horrible time with separation anxiety, with learning to play by herself or alone, without us in view. It's driving us a little baddie. But I can see where her shortcomings at the breeder's house are what we're dealing with now a little bit later. Then from like three to six months they
Susy the Groomer and student (21:13)
learn about rewards and how to get rewards and they also learn how to walk on a leash and they manage their teething and mouthiness because boy that teething period with the puppy we have was a nightmare. The whole teething thing. She chewed chewed everything. She thought her name was what are you eating or don't eat that.
Susy the Groomer and student (21:38)
Either one. She knows what are you eating or don't eat fat. She was pretty sure one of those two was her name because it was just a constant battle. And you guys out there are probably laughing at me, but this is I've only ever really experienced two puppies, the one before this dog, and then 15 years later, this dog. So I know what it's like to be an owner with zero puppy experience. It's very it's fun, it's captivating, but it is some serious work in imprinting that has to be done. Then at six months to a
Susy the Groomer and student (22:08)
year, which is oftentimes when we get them. Six months to a year. I would certainly like to get the puppies a little earlier that than that. And in the grooming van I do get them earlier because I they're not exposed to the other pathogens that could potentially be a problem. But six months to a year, they learn how to ignore distractions. They learn how to sev self-regulate.
Susy the Groomer and student (22:34)
in exciting and stimulating environments and they learn s like the advanced skills. Like they learn some tricks. You can get like tougher tricks like bow and sit pretty and, you know, bark and no bark and leave it and that kind of stuff. And then huh
Barbara (22:51)
No, Bart. They learned that? They learned
Barbara (22:55)
that What the fuck?
Susy the Groomer and student (22:59)
Did we miss a step in there? So how does how does this apply to our grooming? That's what we'd like to know is how can we make this apply to what we're doing? So
Susy the Groomer and student (23:13)
I would say that for the most part we don't get the dogs under eight weeks. We th the first visit for an ideal situation where you don't have exposure to other dogs is somewhere between eight and twelve weeks. What do you think of that?
Barbara (23:27)
that's just right about where I want
Susy the Groomer and student (23:30)
Yeah, that
Susy the Groomer and student (23:31)
works good. I like to come in earlier than that and just have a treat party where they get some love and they get some treats and they smell the smells and hopefully that imprints a little bit. But for actually working a little bit with the dog, now at eight to twelve weeks they've only really got like fifteen or twenty minute attention span. It's a pretty short attention span. So what do you do on that first visit since you're dealing with it?
Susy the Groomer and student (23:58)
like a finite amount of time.
Barbara (24:01)
working on the table. you're using your table restraints and hello, this is your brush and this is a comb and listen to this. This is the clippers. What do you think about that noise, honey? You know
Susy the Groomer and student (24:21)
So
Susy the Groomer and student (24:21)
basically desensitization kind of stuff, maybe on the first one.
Barbara (24:24)
Yeah. Yeah.
Barbara (24:26)
Yeah. Like
Susy the Groomer and student (24:28)
lots of hands on touching.
Barbara (24:28)
Not supposed. Yeah,
Barbara (24:31)
I usually well I would actually do a twenty-five dollar get acquainted puppy first puppy appointment. And I'd just have the people come in and bring the puppy into my table. so that I'm not like taking the puppy from the people and then put it I'm having they put it on the table and then they leave.
Barbara (24:58)
And that's the hardest thing for them. And then I would
Susy the Groomer and student (25:02)
Boy, I know it. I'm going through that right now.
Barbara (25:08)
just do a just do whatever, you know, a little bit of brushing and combing, just a little bit. Toenails, feet.
Susy the Groomer and student (25:17)
Yes. Toenails, feet, button, belly.
Barbara (25:18)
No threat.
Barbara (25:21)
Do around the eyes. 'Cause that's always a little threatening, you know, and
Susy the Groomer and student (25:24)
And button belly. Right.
Barbara (25:28)
a little sanitary work and and
Susy the Groomer and student (25:31)
Maybe a dry
Susy the Groomer and student (25:32)
bath?
Barbara (25:33)
I used to leave the bath until the next time because I felt
Susy the Groomer and student (25:37)
Okay.
Barbara (25:37)
they could go back into the bathing room and kinda get an a little sense of it back there. But yeah. Mostly
Susy the Groomer and student (25:46)
Smell it, hear it, see what's going on.
Barbara (25:50)
it would be on my table doing table work and tool recognition and a little desensitation and
Barbara (26:00)
That kind of thing. Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and student (26:00)
Okay. Exposure,
Susy the Groomer and student (26:02)
handling, desensitization,
Susy the Groomer and student (26:05)
the next visit, maybe do a bath. I would do a bath on the second one.
Barbara (26:10)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and student (26:11)
And
Susy the Groomer and student (26:11)
just yeah, trim the nails, do some of the stuff we did before, but still being mindful of the amount of time the dog is there. So that you're not pushing the limits and the dog is getting cranky or tired or angry or any of those things. I would probably consider
Susy the Groomer and student (26:31)
a lick mat as a reward because dogs really love that creamy crap that you smear on a lick mat. are a very high value reward for when that dog comes in on that second visit where it has the bath. And I use a handheld dryer.
Susy the Groomer and student (26:48)
So that it's very gentle but still has all of the makings of a big dryer so it blows, it's a little bit warm, it's noisy. I'll put a happy hoodie on the puppy so they get used to that feeling if they'll tolerate it. Then like as you go along, five or six months, you've got the dog at teething stage. That can be fun. You want to be careful.
Barbara (27:12)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and student (27:13)
Yeah, they're teething and they're testing boundaries.
Susy the Groomer and student (27:16)
You wanna be careful not to fight with them at this point. You really need to put your patience on and try to be tolerant and not wrestle because if you start wrestling now, that's gonna set a precedent and if the dog's gonna in enjoy wrestling as it grows up, you're gonna find you're gonna be wrestling with that dog. So, this is when I teach the face in the hand thing.
Susy the Groomer and student (27:42)
That's what this is. This is dog's face, my hand. And and so that
Barbara (27:46)
What?
Susy the Groomer and student (27:47)
I can teach them to sit still while I'm doing their face. And I do that in like a traditional training method where I put their hand and then I give them a little treat. And then I give them a little treat. I like to use string cheese or lunch meat or the liver treats, but I really try to go for something that's not my regular treat for that particular case.
Susy the Groomer and student (28:09)
And I will often keep something for the puppies to chew on nearby. So if there's a like a tug, a cloth tug that they can chew on, then sometimes I'll use that as a substitution for my hand or whatever. And try to get that in there. And then like at six to twelve months, then you're hitting the adolescent stage where the dog is
Susy the Groomer and student (28:33)
getting fearful spikes. This is a point at which there's this fear thing that happens with dogs where they weren't fearful as a puppy and then all of a sudden in adolescence they get afraid of stuff sharp noises startle them and things like that. So work through that using micro steps instead of force. Like break it down into little bite-sized steps like if you need to pick the foot up and just put it down, do that for a little while, then pick it up and snip a nail.
Susy the Groomer and student (29:01)
So that's my suggestion for puppies. And the golden rule here, of course, is to have the puppy on their table at where they are mentally and not where you want them to be six months from now. Prioritize confidence building early on and precision and speed and really good looking haircuts way down the road. Anything you would like to add to that, Barbara?
Barbara (29:27)
No, I think you've done a very thorough job, Susie. Good good work.
Susy the Groomer and student (29:32)
let because I am the student, as it says right here, the student, when Barbara gives me praise, it makes me very happy. So that
Barbara (29:41)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer and student (29:42)
made me very happy. Okay, well we're gonna take a quick break and hear from our other sponsors and then we're gonna be back with B Bird's classroom.
Susy the Groomer and student (31:19)
with B Bird's classroom.
Susy the Groomer and student (31:22)
Today Barbara's breaking down the science of moisturizing ingredients and what actually hydrates the skin. All right, Barbara, it's all you.
Barbara (31:32)
Hey, thank you, Susie. So I'm gonna have I'm gonna give you the takeaway messages on the beginning of the presentation. in case I don't wrap it up real cleanly. It'll give you
Susy the Groomer and student (31:47)
You're turning
Susy the Groomer and student (31:48)
us upside down, Barbara.
Barbara (31:51)
But this is what I want you to get from this presentation is that moisturization is a system and not just a certain ingredient or ingredients. It it it has to be a a matter of
Barbara (32:17)
providing moisture, taking on moisture and actually holding it and so there's a a certain amount of barrier function that has to happen because if there's no if there's not a good barrier function going on the water will just go on and just rinse right off and you won't have any
Barbara (32:48)
any additional moisture provided to the skin and coat. Also, the needs of the hair are somewhat different than the needs of the skin. And we've only just recently started incorporating the needs of the skin into our grooming practices. For me, the skinification or the addition of
Barbara (33:18)
Skin priority is one of the most exciting developments in our industry in my period of time, which is a long, long time. So I'm really happy to see that. But I know that
Barbara (33:41)
Some groom some some of us have learned about shampooing and conditioning in very simplistic terms and we think of there being like a single humectant
Barbara (34:02)
That is responsible for moisturizing, whereas there may actually be a number of humectants involved in it in a a really good shampoo. And and the delivery system and the ingredients that we choose for conditioners are likely to be somewhat different than what we use for shampoos, because shampoos just are apt.
Barbara (34:32)
applied and then rinsed off. Whereas conditioners have more of a longer lasting value, especially if we allow that to happen. So I always say even though cationic conditioners attach to the hair or skin that fast
Barbara (35:01)
The type of ingredients that are like oils and that kind of moisturizing takes longer deposition. It's not just an ionic event. It's slower. So I think we can think of shampoos as kind of a quicker process.
Barbara (35:30)
and conditioners as an opportunity than to vary the amount of contact time depending on whether you think the dog has a drier skin or needs more moisturizing. So moisturization is a system, not just an ingredient. Humectants manage water, they don't simply add moisture.
Barbara (35:59)
Water retention is just as important as water attraction. So it's very important that we have a mechanism by which moisture is retained by the skin and the coat, not just
Barbara (36:21)
there and rinsed off and so long. So we want wash off and leave on products are just like fundamental different opportunities to to moisturize. I know that some groomers have been late to the conditioning cycle. When I first started grooming
Barbara (36:51)
When I first started grooming, I had to bring the conditioner to the kennel I worked at. And this was a show kennel, but it was a poodle kennel. And there wasn't a concept of conditioners because I came from the Laza Opso background, we appreciated conditioners and you know, like soon
Barbara (37:20)
conditioning was a a much more common part of grooming and nowadays we rarely do without it. Okay, so
Barbara (37:34)
So we need to
Susy the Groomer and student (37:35)
I definitely
Susy the Groomer and student (37:35)
condition dogs, every dog in some way.
Barbara (37:39)
Yeah, and I you know, and I will say again, I do believe that today's conditioning shampoos offer much better conditioning than they did back in the nineties when I started out. Well, I actually started out in the seventies. Can you believe that? my god.
Susy the Groomer and student (38:06)
That's crazy.
Barbara (38:07)
I
Barbara (38:08)
know I was how was that the groomers that I started I started out in like in nineteen seventy one. And in nineteen seventy seven, the day after Labor Day, I opened my own shop. So this is kind of a an anniversary weekend for me. And I always, always when we get here, here it says Labor Day tomorrow.
Barbara (38:35)
my god, I'm opening up tomorrow. You know, like was I ever busy that week before I opened my own shop, just running back and forth to the hardware store for one thing. Just back and forth. And and my friend and mentor had promised that he would install my tub. So I had a like a used bathtub and
Barbara (39:05)
And he was gonna make a frame for it. He didn't show up until the day before I opened. I was so nervous. But it all happened. And I and I am forever grateful for that tub because he slanted my tub. So it wasn't just a level bottom, but it was, you know, and he turned it around so that the the drainer was
Barbara (39:34)
was to the bottom of the tub and it worked so well with bathing beauty and the hydro surge and those things about those bathing systems that we use. So anyway let me get I wanna go over some some terminology so you just kind of get acquainted with some of the
Barbara (40:02)
The names.
Barbara (40:04)
I have got too much information. So whole
Susy the Groomer and student (40:11)
Right.
Barbara (40:13)
moisturizing system is starts with humectants, which actually bring in attract a
Barbara (40:27)
They bring in and bind the water. And this property of humectins is called high gro th hydroicity. So it's high grow with a G, not hydro, highroicity. Hygroicity? Hygroicity. It goes my squeaky voice. And one of the most common that we all know is glycerin.
Barbara (40:57)
Glycerin is one of the best humectants because it just attracts a ton of water. And however, it has a downside, and that is if it's not formulated well, and Susie knows this, if there's too much of a proportion of glycerin in a in a shampoo or conditioner, it's gonna leave a kind of tacky.
Barbara (41:26)
feel and it's the downside. It's the downside of some of these urea. You know where a urea comes from.
Susy the Groomer and student (41:37)
Yes.
Barbara (41:39)
But it's a part of it comes from urine, but it's a part of the body's own moisturizing system. What's called the natural moisturizing factors NMF and an NMF natural moisturizing factor. Sodium PCA is
Barbara (42:06)
Sounds like a chemical, but it's another ingredient that's biosimilar, bioidentical to what the body produces. sodium lactate is a humectant, sorbitol. Sorbitol is a sugar-based alcohol, and it's anumectant and it's hygroscopic.
Barbara (42:35)
Purpylene glycol is very much like glycerin, but it's has less of a tacky problem with ample amounts of it. Butylene glycol, betanes are moisturizer or humectanes, and panthanol. Now we tend to think of panthanol as a conditioner, but the truth is.
Barbara (43:04)
Its main function of Dexpanthanol is moisturizing. So it's a very good one to to be able to recognize. It's used in an awful lot of shampoos now and in as well as in conditioners. And we also have the the ingredient that I
Barbara (43:31)
taught you about from Igroom, which is hydroxypropyl bis hydroxyethyldeimonium chloride.
Susy the Groomer and student (43:39)
That's just about the longest name of any ingredient I think I've heard you pronounce.
Barbara (43:45)
well
Barbara (43:45)
that's just but you notice how that just like rolled off my tongue. It just hydroxypropyl
Susy the Groomer and student (43:51)
It did, it just flew out. I watched the word come out and
Barbara (43:56)
bishydroxy ethyl daimonium chloride. That's because I
Susy the Groomer and student (44:00)
Yeah.
Barbara (44:01)
practiced and practiced and practiced.
Susy the Groomer and student (44:03)
Well, good for you.
Barbara (44:13)
Use it and learn to pronounce it. That's what I say. Learn to pronounce if you know, like the days are gone where we can just like set aside anything that we can't pronounce. Because that would just leave us in the nineteen seventies. You know.
Susy the Groomer and student (44:33)
That was one of those
Susy the Groomer and student (44:34)
things you see pop up occasionally on the internet. Well, if I can't pronounce it, I don't want it in my shampoo. Well then learn how to pronounce it. It's not that hard.
Barbara (44:41)
That's right.
Barbara (44:43)
Then there's just an ingredient you haven't learned to pronounce yet. And this this hydroxyethyldeimonium chloride is a tremendous ingredient because it is cationic. So it binds as well as attracts the water. So it does the whole thing in one.
Barbara (45:08)
And it does it instantly.
Susy the Groomer and student (45:11)
That's cool.
Barbara (45:13)
So it is it is a an advanced moisturizing ingredient and you wouldn't name it as a moisturizer unless you remembered that you heard it here from B-Bird, okay? So another part of moisturization are emollients, which are skin softeners and makes the surface
Barbara (45:41)
of the hair or the skin feels smooth and soft and that could be plant oils, fatty alcohol, certain silicones, and lipid like materials. So we have emollients just help out the situation. They help the skin accept the humectants. because the skin
Barbara (46:07)
can be so dry that it can't uptake the humectants. But emollients help to soften it and like make it more agreeable to uptaking your humectants. also a very important part of moisturization is occlusives.
Barbara (46:28)
or water loss reducers. These are ingredients that slow the escape of water, like petrolatum, which is in case you r recognize it, petrolatum is Vaseline. Vaseline
Barbara (46:50)
Vaseline petrolatum was a huge ingredient in the days
Barbara (46:58)
before y'all
Susy the Groomer and student (47:00)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (47:02)
it for humans.
Barbara (47:04)
One of the ways that I have managed wrinkles in my face
Barbara (47:11)
is I've used Vaseline on my face. And a a lot of people recommend that. Because, you know, like I can put Vaseline up here and go to sleep and wake up and it's all like it's not half so bad. So like
Susy the Groomer and student (47:30)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (47:31)
that. And an offshoot of petrolatum is mineral oil, which again used to be a very
Barbara (47:40)
a common moisturizing ingredient because it helps to seal the surface so that the water isn't lost. That's why occlusives are important. Now silicone, some of our silicones like the methicone, are occlusives and will keep water from lo losing it.
Barbara (48:07)
Losin' don't lose it now.
Barbara (48:11)
So you get that it's a really a much more complicated process than just simply having a humectant in the shampoo. And nowadays, now that we are focusing much more on the skin, we also have barrier supporting film forming ingredients.
Barbara (48:39)
a fourth ingredient of moisturizing. And those would include ceramides, cholesterol, fatty acids, phospholipids, hydrolyzed protein.
Barbara (48:55)
cationic polymers and certain polysaccharides and good old hydroxypropyl bishydroxy ethylde ammonium chloride. Okay.
Barbara (49:10)
And anyway, in case that's too much for you to pronounce or to remember, you can think of the this has a trade name of Cola Moist. It's made by a company called Colonial Chemical. They're a they're a great company and they are heavily used by shampoo manufacturers, our doggy shampoos. And this is a
Barbara (49:38)
advanced moisturizing ingredient that they personally developed. And it doesn't really fit in any one of these other boxes, so that's why you hear hear me talk about it more than once. here's another one. What about oatmeal?
Susy the Groomer and student (49:55)
Yeah, what about oatmeal? Yeah.
Barbara (49:57)
It's a humectant,
Barbara (49:58)
it's a moisturizer, it's a water retention,
Barbara (50:02)
it is another multifunctional moisturizing ingredient. And if you've heard that oatmeal dries out.
Barbara (50:15)
You've heard incorrectly. And I remember I even dissed oatmeal myself when I started out with
Barbara (50:25)
my ingredient journey, because I thought it was easily could be allergic to it.
Barbara (50:35)
I don't think, well I have to ask it, let me tell you this. Wheat, hydrolyzed wheat protein
Barbara (50:45)
was hot for many years and then you don't see it quite as often anymore, and that's because if an animal or a person has a high wheat intolerance,
Barbara (51:04)
it can be intolerant to the hydrolyzed wheat protein.
Barbara (51:10)
there are folks in animals that don't work with the hydrolyzed wheat protein, although the hydrolyzation breaks the protein down into such small molecules that it's not as offensive as it might seem.
Barbara (51:31)
but getting back to oatmeal, it has water retention, film formation, emolliency, it softens the skin, barrier support, soothing effects, and interaction with the skin surface in a positive way. So it is a multifunctional moisturizing slash
Barbara (51:58)
Skin conditioning material. And that's why. and it helps to provide food for the microbiome of the skin to replenish itself after the bath. Very important function as a prebiotic. So you might have noticed that.
Barbara (52:27)
Oatmeal was like like hugely popular in the the seventies and early eighties and then it sort of faded some it's always been there, but it became more of a claims ingredient, just used in fairy dust amounts
Barbara (52:45)
it looks good on the label. People will say, it's got oatmeal in it. Well it must be good.
Barbara (52:50)
Well now it's coming back in significant amounts in formulas again. And it's one of the b one of the biggest differences between pet shampoo and people shampoo is you see a lot more oatmeal in dog shampoos. People shampoos, it's there and it's more used than it used to be. It's something that
Barbara (53:20)
human grooming, human shampoos have taken from pet shampoos instead of the other way around, which is like almost always the way that it works. So there you go. I just hope that that gives you a little bit more knowledge of of looking for
Barbara (53:42)
A a complex of ingredients to provide moisturization and not just single ingredients unless it's
Barbara (53:53)
Colonized.
Susy the Groomer and student (53:55)
Here's a stupid question just to tack on to the end of this. How do you tell if there's enough oatmeal in there to not just be fairy dust? Does it just need to be up higher on the the
Barbara (54:06)
Well
Susy the Groomer and student (54:06)
list?
Barbara (54:07)
yeah, we'll I'll be digging into this a little bit more too
Barbara (54:12)
does oatmeal extract have the same value as colloidal oatmeal?
Susy the Groomer and student (54:17)
Yes. That would have been my follow-up question. So let's
Barbara (54:20)
No.
Susy the Groomer and student (54:21)
table both of those for next week and maybe do some oatmeal next week.
Barbara (54:24)
so I
Barbara (54:25)
I I will follow up with that because the the all of those questions are important to ask about oatmeal.
Susy the Groomer and student (54:35)
Cool. All right. Well, thanks for being here, everyone. We really appreciate you. Thanks for joining us on Patreon and supporting the show. Thanks for the donations that you guys give us at the website. And happy grooming. See you next time on the groom pod. Bye now.
Barbara (54:51)
Take care of yourselves, cause we love ya and we need you.