GroomPod 489 Muzzles and Moisturizing part 2 transcript
Susy the Groomer (00:00)
Hello, groomers. Welcome to the Groom Pod episode 488, recorded on September 17th, 2026. And today might be a little bit short of a show because we're starting on a different day and a little late. So but we're gonna talk about muzzles and we're gonna do part two on moisturizing. So I'm gonna real quickly play a couple ads and then we're gonna go right into our first appointment so we can get the business moving.
Susy the Groomer (02:01)
Okay, Barbara. The dog's experience really matters to me. It's like the prime dri driver for my grooming is that the dog enjoy the groom or or if not enjoy it, at least make it tolerable so it doesn't feel like it's a battle or an assault. And so I don't force grooming on them. I work with them. That's like
Susy the Groomer (02:25)
The coolest thing I learned from Chrissy is how to work with the dog instead of against the dog. And muzzling is one of those controversial subjects. How do you feel about muzzling, Barbara?
Barbara (02:36)
Well, you know, I'm retired, so I'm, you know, I that means
Susy the Groomer (02:44)
You still have feelings though.
Barbara (02:47)
it means that my attitude towards muzzling is pretty old school. And also
Barbara (02:59)
like highly value the dog's experience of the grooming as well as the technical excellence of my work. and but I believe in protecting myself if I get the vibe that the dog might bite me.
Barbara (03:26)
I don't wait for the dog to bite me and then muzzle it from then on. I you know, if I feel the dog is stiffening under my touch for one thing, growling of course, is a warning.
Susy the Groomer (03:48)
Lip curl. That's what this is. This is lip curl. I can't make
Barbara (03:52)
What are you d yeah? Yeah.
Susy the Groomer (03:57)
my lip go up like that but I can do it this way. So
Barbara (04:02)
Yeah, well
Barbara (04:02)
snarling yeah, snarling is certainly, you know, there's all kinds of warnings, even just little things like the ear set. like if they pull their ears back,
Susy the Groomer (04:13)
Or the eyes.
Barbara (04:15)
Sometimes they will wag their tails in a certain nervous way. That's not a happy wag, you know? That
Susy the Groomer (04:23)
Yes, I've seen that. Yep.
Barbara (04:28)
nervous wagging of the tail. that's a sign that they've gone into a stress mode. And so of course biting is a response of the stress mode.
Barbara (04:41)
And but I found that most of the dogs that I would muzzle, accepted the muzzle, it it actually kind of neutralized the situation and took biting off the table.
Barbara (04:59)
And I was happy with that and they I think they don't really want to bite you. They want you to stop whatever it is, like grooming them. I would just
Susy the Groomer (05:12)
Absolutely. I think a fun topic would be
Barbara (05:17)
have to muzzle for their nails.
Susy the Groomer (05:19)
Right. I think a fun topic for maybe for the next show would be dog bites. What causes a dog bite? What's the precursor to a dog bite? I'll consider doing that for next time's behavior lesson. Yeah.
Barbara (05:33)
Okay, that would be good. Everybody needs to
Barbara (05:36)
know that how to detect that. And you know, I th I can't help but think of our mutual ex-friend Lynn, who
Susy the Groomer (05:45)
Yeah.
Barbara (05:46)
survived a treacherous attack by
Susy the Groomer (05:52)
A mauling.
Barbara (05:54)
yeah, and I and actually, you know, I had
Barbara (05:59)
kind of a crazy bichon that I groomed with owner present. And that dog she she tried to groom that dog on the couch and that dog came off the couch and knocked her down and it's a bichon off the couch and attacked her
Susy the Groomer (06:20)
Wow.
Barbara (06:21)
and wouldn't stop. And I
Barbara (06:26)
You know, like we don't groom the dog on the couch.
Susy the Groomer (06:32)
Yeah, no. Well, as you
Susy the Groomer (06:35)
know, 'cause I've talked about it about a million times on this show and in real life, I
Susy the Groomer (06:42)
really feel strongly about connecting the biting end to the post in front of them so that you've got the loop going up to the top, you've got a connection to the post in front. And then for me a hip strap so that the dog is supported if it goes off the table. Because sometimes when they get upset, they're not really thinking about things like table edges. And one of my little tricks is that I have a very small table. I have a 36 inch table and a table device.
Susy the Groomer (07:12)
So most of my dogs are small and they're literally on the edge of the table, which keeps them very well behaved. Mind you, I train for this. I let them get comfortable in all this setup, but I really feel strongly about three points of connection. And it's for this exact reason. Sometimes you surprise a dog.
Susy the Groomer (07:33)
And the dog's reaction in nature is to turn and strike at whatever has surprised them. A lot of dogs this isn't a real issue with, but some dogs that reaction that turn and strike is very deep. It's like ingrained in there who they are. And if you know this, just having that head tethered a little bit away from where you can get bit, where they can reach you.
Susy the Groomer (08:01)
I've never been bit. I know I've said that before. I was bit by a cat, but it was in a veterinary procedure. But I have not been bit as a groomer. I've been grazed, but that's it. And I do credit that to having the dog's head tethered so that it cannot turn and strike me when I'm not paying attention. Though it's restraint, they have complete freedom, sometimes can even practically turn around on the end of the table when they're still tethered up to that post. But
Susy the Groomer (08:30)
That's how I tell if I need a muzzle is if that dog has repeatedly turned and looked at me like I'm pissed off, cut cut it out lady, then I might use a muzzle. I don't go to it right away. I always give them a chance to be good. Even if I've used a muzzle the last time and the time before and the time before, I start out without a muzzle but with the head tethered.
Susy the Groomer (08:54)
eventually they will ask for that muzzle and I will give it to Because I'm doing dogs that are behavior dogs, oftentimes it's pain related.
Susy the Groomer (09:04)
If it's pain related, it's very difficult not to hurt the dog in some way accidentally, just by moving or pushing or picking up or anything like that. So I'm just gonna be a little safer by hooking that head up. So oftentimes I will get like Barbara does, use a an extra person to help me. But I'm not in a shop where I have an extra person, so I don't really get that. So my extra person is my lip system over the top of my table. and my groomers helper.
Susy the Groomer (09:35)
If you're afraid of getting bit I think it smells. I think fear and stress on humans smell and I think dogs pick up on it. Do you think that's true?
Barbara (09:47)
Yeah, yeah, I think that dogs pick up on your fear. but you can fool them.
Barbara (09:56)
like I used to talk shit to those kind of dogs. You know, I just put out something verbally that contradicts w that impression.
Barbara (10:08)
Like what would you do it if you i if you were walking along a trail and coming the other way was a big bear?
Susy the Groomer (10:15)
Stop and think.
Barbara (10:18)
not getting near me, you fucking fucking. You know, that's
Susy the Groomer (10:23)
Yes.
Barbara (10:24)
what would happen. Out of my mouth would come this bear-sized bullshit,
Susy the Groomer (10:30)
Reaction.
Barbara (10:32)
you this wall of bullshit, and I would make
Susy the Groomer (10:34)
Yeah.
Barbara (10:35)
myself big and my hair as big as I could. And
Susy the Groomer (10:41)
So is that what
Susy the Groomer (10:42)
you're doing with the dogs? You're you're sending that vibe?
Barbara (10:46)
Well, y I I have been known to do that. I mean
Susy the Groomer (10:52)
Ha ha
Barbara (10:52)
it it's it's better than striking them, you know, it's just bullshit them. But I you know, like mostly I'm not trying to make the dog run off, like I'm trying to get the bear to have second thoughts.
Barbara (11:12)
about attacking me. No, I think I'll just go behind this bush. with the dog, I don't wanna get to that point. I I
Susy the Groomer (11:22)
Right.
Barbara (11:23)
I really don't wanna get to the fear or fire kind of Yeah,
Susy the Groomer (11:30)
Right, it's not a fight. Grooming isn't a fight.
Barbara (11:34)
you know, and you you don't wanna escalate up the ladder.
Barbara (11:39)
of stress and and
Susy the Groomer (11:42)
Right.
Barbara (11:42)
threats and that kind of thing.
Barbara (11:44)
so I I pretty much get a little firmer in my voice but still keep it calm.
Susy the Groomer (11:56)
Yes. Calm is so important. So before I grab the muzzle, I'm gonna l
Barbara (12:02)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer (12:03)
I'm gonna look if I can, because sometimes you can't, at the mouth and the teeth, because that muzzle's gonna put pressure on the mouth, especially if the dog's opening it and and opening his mouth against the muzzle and bad teeth.
Susy the Groomer (12:17)
make for really uncomfortable muzzling. So I I try to be thoughtful about that and probably go for an alternative to the muzzle if the dog has really bad teeth. But the other side of that is
Barbara (12:27)
Well,
Susy the Groomer (12:28)
I don't want to get bit by those horrible teeth.
Barbara (12:31)
Yeah. but the having bad teeth i is often a cause of bad behavior on their part, because anywhere touching around their muzzle is uncomfortable and maybe even painful and and bad.
Barbara (12:56)
teeth, they can be trying to avoid that and protecting their mouth from being messed with.
Susy the Groomer (13:03)
So I I
Susy the Groomer (13:04)
try to figure out if there's a potential for pain or is this a learned behavior from years of grooming where they've just gotten very defensive? If that's the case, you know, I might treat it a little differently. Also, sometimes, as a matter of fact, just happened to me last week. I I take a look at why the dog is fighting and I find a big mass in the front of their gum.
Susy the Groomer (13:27)
And I had to send that dog
Barbara (13:28)
Yeah.
Susy the Groomer (13:29)
to the vet and, you know, just to hoping for a good diagnosis because it looked awful, the teeth were awful, and I couldn't I didn't want to put pressure on where that mass was. I didn't know if it hurt or not. So I look for stuff like that before I go throwing a muzzle on a dog. And I will either use a little bit bigger muzzle and then the cross ties if I have to, if I see there's problems in the mouth. also if they're fighting me before I go to a muzzle.
Susy the Groomer (13:57)
I check and see how I'm holding the dog, make sure I'm not irritating any spots that are painful, like fiddle front dogs or a bad hip or something like that. I look for that. and I am not opposed to getting some pain meds on board if it continues and I have found something that's painful. if I use a muzzle once, I write it down.
Susy the Groomer (14:22)
Because I wanna know four appointments from now that I did have to use a muzzle once. That'll affect how I go forward. but I don't automatically then grab the muzzle the next time the dog's in. I just note it so that I know it's there. I always use the table supports, I always give the dog a chance to be good.
Susy the Groomer (14:43)
with the table support so that I'm safe. So I like to be safe. And I'm dealing with dogs that have behavior issues so they don't enjoy the process. big important thing that I think people don't think about, wash your muzzles. Because they smell like the stress of the dog they were on before and the dogs can smell that.
Barbara (15:02)
good point.
Susy the Groomer (15:03)
Yeah. So wash your muzzles. If you use a muzzle, take it in, wash it before you use it again on another dog so that doesn't
Barbara (15:09)
I never did.
Barbara (15:10)
Never
Susy the Groomer (15:12)
Most people don't.
Barbara (15:13)
washed I never I never washed a muzzle. I can say that now that I'm gone.
Susy the Groomer (15:20)
Yes. Well,
Susy the Groomer (15:21)
I find it's helpful. I can tell the n I can notice a difference.
Susy the Groomer (15:24)
Oftentimes if I've used a muzzle and then used it on another dog that same day or something. I don't always tell the owner, but if it's second or third time that I've had to, then I will discuss it with the owner and then we'll have the talk about behavior and special needs dogs and what to expect with grooming and you know the process and all that stuff. So I I like to keep them included in the care of their dog so that they don't feel like once the dog's in yeah, once the dog's
Barbara (15:52)
Hello?
Susy the Groomer (15:54)
in my
Susy the Groomer (15:54)
hand they don't get to say well they do get to say and they also get to help. So let's talk about the types of muzzles that are out there.
Susy the Groomer (16:02)
So the traditional muzzles are the ones that most of us have, they're nylon or they're mesh. I like color coded muzzles. So you know which one you're grabbing by the color of either the strap or the nylon muzzle part, so that there's some delineation that shows what
Susy the Groomer (16:20)
size it is from a distance. The Romani muzzles. I don't know if they still ha have them. I'm not sure what's going on there. But they were color coded. It was really easy to tell which muzzle you have and I have them hanging up next to my table. Some of them have open
Susy the Groomer (16:36)
holes in the end. Some of them are actually closed on the end now with a mesh closer. Just because it has mesh over the end doesn't mean the dog still can't bite you out the end of the muzzle. Because they can sometimes. If a muzzle's not fitted correctly or if you need to leave it loose because of mouth problems, they can still get you. They can still pinch your hand pretty good. So be aware of that.
Susy the Groomer (16:59)
They have a clip on the neck usually for adjustment. And they come in lots of sizes from itsy bitsy teeny weeny muzzles to absolutely gigantic. If you have to put a muzzle this size on a dog this size, you shouldn't be having to muzzle a dog this size because that's just wrong. So they are very good as far as being able to find something that fits as long as you have them. They even have short nose ones that cover the whole face, like for the cats or the brachycephalus.
Susy the Groomer (17:29)
Dogs and some of them now I noticed when I was looking the other day, they've got a velcro strap that you can tighten around the nose.
Susy the Groomer (17:38)
And I and I don't really like that as much. but if you got a really aggressive dog, it might be helpful, I suppose.
Susy the Groomer (17:44)
Then there is the silicone muzzles, like the duck muzzle or the shark muzzle or the pig muzzle. I thoroughly enjoy having to put those muzzles on because they look so silly. I remember when the first duck muzzle came out. It had do you remember
Susy the Groomer (18:04)
When old ladies wore the strappy sandals with the little stones and they were made out of gold lemee. Well, my first duck muzzle had like a straps that were like that. The cool thing about that muzzle, it was really stiff. Those straps were super stiff. So I could keep my hand way back here and then I could just flip the end of the muzzle up over the dog's nose, and I could get a dog that doesn't like muzzle. Have you ever had a dog that can pretty much get every muzzle over there is?
Barbara (18:34)
No, but I wanted to tell you that my first muzzle that I used as a trainee groomer was a Tupperware juice glass with strings on it and it was in and the thing cut out.
Susy the Groomer (18:55)
Perfect.
Barbara (18:56)
And it was perfect and I loved it because it was stiff and you could put it on like that. Yeah,
Susy the Groomer (19:02)
Yeah.
Barbara (19:04)
you know, like your fingers are f in fr in front of the muzzle and you put the muzzle on in place before you let your fingers go. And it wa it was so easy to use and it seemed to be comfortable. And I lived out my career.
Barbara (19:24)
l looking for a muzzle like that again because
Susy the Groomer (19:28)
Yeah.
Barbara (19:28)
i it was really my my mentor Bill North had made that for me because of course I got all the misbehaving dogs as the
Susy the Groomer (19:41)
Yeah.
Barbara (19:41)
apprentice who was gonna fuck up the grooming anyway
Barbara (19:47)
I got all the difficult to handle dogs. and he got all of the, you know, like it took me a it took me two years of working with him to realize that it wasn't just that dogs were too afraid of him to do anything on the table, but it was I mean, because he would seem like he had this master control over them. Well, part of that was because they were afraid.
Susy the Groomer (20:16)
Yeah, I don't want that.
Barbara (20:18)
no, I don't I don't want that either. And so anyway, I got stuck most likely with the dogs that needed a muzzle.
Susy the Groomer (20:31)
So
Susy the Groomer (20:31)
with the with these silicone muzzles and with the traditional muzzle, sometimes I will very carefully slip the grooming loop underneath the strap of the muzzle and then attach it up top because then the dog can't paw the muzzle off.
Susy the Groomer (20:50)
You have to be careful that you're not restricting any airflow or anything like that when you do that. Like you can't ream up on that really tight. But you can slip it underneath and loosely attach it, and then the dog can't get it off. And if they're an experienced muzzler, or muzzle-ee, I should say, if they're experienced at being muzzled, they can whip their head and make it really difficult for you to get. I've always wondered why. Muzzle
Susy the Groomer (21:20)
tethers.
Barbara (21:21)
Manufacturers.
Susy the Groomer (21:23)
Why the manufacturers don't make a stiff
Susy the Groomer (21:27)
way to attach like like put a wire, a coated wire in the strap that goes around the back of the dog halfway, just so you've got a little stiffness so you can flick it up over their nose and keep your hands out of the way. Oftentimes I'll use a groomer's helper with a cross tie against my lips and then I'll just flip it up that way. But I don't want it to be scary for the dog. I'd like to just be able to put the muzzle on the dog. So I try to
Barbara (21:54)
I don't want it
Barbara (21:56)
to be scary for me.
Susy the Groomer (21:58)
Yeah, that that too.
Susy the Groomer (22:00)
So if
Susy the Groomer (22:01)
If I have high value treats, something like string cheese or lunch meat, I will train with the muzzle. I'll slip the muzzle on, a big enough muzzle so they can eat through it, and I'll feed a little bit of a treat through the muzzle, then I'll take it off and I'll do that a few times so they're not afraid of that putting on of the muzzle. Some dogs are just like you said earlier, they're like, here, muzzle me, because I know I'm bad. Just go ahead and muzzle me. And they just let you put it
Barbara (22:26)
What?
Susy the Groomer (22:27)
on and then they're like, okay, no, I'm not bad.
Barbara (22:30)
Okay.
Susy the Groomer (22:31)
It's so funny.
Susy the Groomer (22:32)
I have a Pomeranian that is really talented at removing the muzzle and has so much, you know, there's so much hair there. It's hard to get the muzzle tight enough so that he can't get his dew claw in the edge of that muzzle and pull it right off of his nose. So I discovered
Susy the Groomer (22:54)
this cone muzzle that my cone muzzle muzzle tough this cone muzzle that is hard it's made out of film and it has a strap that comes up over the top of the dog's head and then c connects behind the ears.
Susy the Groomer (23:11)
That's the only muzzle that works on this dog. Sometimes you have to get creative, like what Barbara said with the cup on the string. Sometimes you gotta think outside the box. So they also have basket muzzles. They now have silicone basket muzzles, which seem a little heavy to me. I picked them up at the store the other day and I was like, nah, I don't think I would like this. But that gives the dog a little bit more freedom to open their mouth and stuff and still protects your hands.
Susy the Groomer (23:37)
Gotta be kind of a big dog for that though, I think. I don't like the smaller ones because they feel a little heavy. And yeah, can you think of any other so I've got a bunch of muzzle alternatives, but I think that's it for actual air muzzles. What do you think of the air muzzle?
Barbara (23:54)
All Air Muzzles.
Barbara (23:55)
I I was gonna say that one of the ways that I used to muzzle
Barbara (24:01)
Small dogs was
Barbara (24:04)
pantyhose tied in them s in an easy knot above their nose and then if you n needed to you could put the ties underneath there too. But I used to, you know like sometimes I would just find it so hard to get close enough to the dog's mouth to
Barbara (24:32)
put a muzzle on it, but I could just sort of like do the r the cowgirl thing and do a loop and like lasso the muzzle in this big big loop and then quickly reduce the size of that loop you could tie it under the muzzle and then behind the ears. That would be a way to
Barbara (24:55)
sometimes get a dog when you didn't have a muzzle handy, but then you had to have pantyhose handy and
Susy the Groomer (25:04)
Ha.
Barbara (25:04)
we no longer have pantyhose handy.
Barbara (25:08)
the knee highs were the perfect thing. I used to always
Susy the Groomer (25:12)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (25:12)
have a couple of those knee highs in my shop.
Barbara (25:17)
because there's sometimes when just dogs were tying it around their muzzle was the best thing.
Susy the Groomer (25:23)
We often did that at the vet.
Susy the Groomer (25:25)
We often tied took a took a loop, little you could do like a slipknot, loop onto the nose and then underneath cross it and then back behind the ears.
Barbara (25:32)
Yeah. Well I sent it y yeah.
Susy the Groomer (25:38)
That works well. That's a good alternative. Sometimes better for some of the dogs that freak out when they see that muzzle. You know, some dogs really react to the visual part of it. So
Barbara (25:48)
That's right.
Barbara (25:49)
That's right. Yeah.
Susy the Groomer (25:50)
Yeah, you want to be thoughtful about that.
Susy the Groomer (25:52)
So you can use gauze, that works. My favorite alternative to muzzles is an e-collar. I love to use an e-collar because it
Susy the Groomer (26:05)
Hides what you're doing from the dog so they don't have the timing thing. You know, they put your flip your hand down there, they can't see your hand going down there. They are made of all kinds of material, like they have blow up e-collars, they've got padded e-collars, they've got film e-collars. I have them all. I have every every kind of e-collar you'd ever want. They can flip them off pretty easily, but if you keep an assortment of collars, you know, people discard their collars or they their dog passes away.
Susy the Groomer (26:35)
way they give you the collars. I just keep an assortment of collars and I can run them through the e-collar and use a collar to keep it on and they can't get that off. That's helpful. again clean them, make sure they don't smell like the last dog stress. We don't want that. but I find they're very helpful. They also have the donuts that you blow up, like an air donut. That blocks you. That's another handy way. Some of these are really
Barbara (27:02)
Plate Maltese
Barbara (27:04)
wear their donuts twenty-four seven.
Barbara (27:08)
they accommodate to those things within an hour, you know, like almost immediately. There's no there's no resistance because it's just like they're wearing a pillow. And you know, and I
Susy the Groomer (27:20)
Right. It's kinda like one of those
Susy the Groomer (27:23)
neck pillows on the airplane. They can take a nap.
Barbara (27:27)
Yeah, yeah, they do. They just like like
Barbara (27:30)
although the I have had dogs that just like take a nap in their their giant plastic cone too. That's like you know.
Susy the Groomer (27:38)
huh.
Barbara (27:40)
yeah, these guys just because they this is just such a skin situation that I'm battling with. And by the way,
Barbara (27:51)
I have looked into the Atopi Pet collars,
Susy the Groomer (27:58)
Uh-huh.
Barbara (27:59)
which are which are a lipid replacement slow release collar, and I think I'm gonna go ahead and buy one for each of these times. It costs forty bucks, which is but it lasts for two months. So if
Susy the Groomer (28:16)
Okay.
Barbara (28:17)
it if if it reduces the problem.
Barbara (28:21)
And I they don't have to wear donuts for the rest of their lives. I'll be happy.
Susy the Groomer (28:29)
So I had a dog recently. Talk about skin problems. I had a dog recently that was an inherited dog from a neighbor to another neighbor when the dog's mom passed away. And she claimed that she had been to the dermatologist and been to the regular vet and done all kinds of treatment for this dog's skin problems.
Susy the Groomer (28:49)
Two years later, I show up to groom this dog. I don't do it very often. It's a little yorky. And the lady says, You're never gonna believe this. We figured out the skin problem. And I was like, Holy cow, you're kidding! And I looked at the dog, and sure enough, it had hair everywhere. It was mites. Did no one do a tape skin scraping or a regular skin scraping to find the mites? This dog has been living with mites for six years. Six years he has had no hair. The whole and who knows how long before that. And yet.
Susy the Groomer (29:19)
The vets didn't catch that, or did the lady tell me that she went to the dermatologist and actually didn't? We don't know which it is, but they fixed it. They treated for mites with flea medication. That was all it took, and this dog is no longer suffering. It's really funny how things develop. Anyway, that's an aside. So you can also roll a towel around the neck and make kind of a makeshift.
Susy the Groomer (29:44)
E-collar that way. That's helpful if you have extra people to hold the top of the towel, though. that'll keep the dog calm and still and safe. The last alternative to a muzzle that I could think of was the halty or the head collar.
Susy the Groomer (30:00)
And the way that works is you attach the bottom of the head collar to the post on your grooming table. And when the dog turns, it closes the halter part on the dog's nose. I think they can get past it, but if you just need a little bit of reminder for the dog not to bite, a halty attached to the post might work for you.
Susy the Groomer (30:22)
please wash your muzzles. That's like the biggest thing I want you guys to learn from this. Wash your muzzles so they don't smell like the fear and stress of the dog before them. So, when it comes to muzzling and physical supports, remember that safety and compassion are never mutually exclusive. They exist together. You need to look at them together by taking the time to investigate the root causes of the challenging behaviors, whether it's hidden pain, passionate,
Susy the Groomer (30:48)
Fear or a habit, because sometimes it's a habit, you set yourself and your dog up for far less stressful appointments. Tools like traditional muzzles, cones, and e-collars are invaluable assets in our magic kit to keep everyone safe. But the ultimate goal is always to build trust, refine our techniques, and work towards a stress-free environment where those tools are no longer needed. And for the most part, I have to use a muzzle in the very beginning, but I can usually end up
Susy the Groomer (31:18)
up without a muzzle with just the tether up to the post. it takes a while. Sometimes it's a few years. Sometimes it never works. Like if the dog is extremely painful, I may never be able to groom the dog without a muzzle. I only have one of those right now that I've groomed his entire life, but he's so badly constructed and so painful that he just fears every movement from someone else. They don't even handle him at home because he's so uncomfortable. It's a shame. We should stop reading dogs like that. Anyway, I digress.
Susy the Groomer (31:47)
documenting what works, maintaining fresh equipment, and keeping an open, honest lines of communication with the pet owners ensures that even our most sensitive, high needs clients get the care and respect they deserve. There you go.
Barbara (32:01)
Good. Good work. Thank you.
Susy the Groomer (32:03)
We're all right. Hopefully
Susy the Groomer (32:06)
hopefully that was a little more sciencey, not
Susy the Groomer (32:08)
bites next time.
Barbara (32:08)
You're getting there. You're
Barbara (32:10)
getting there.
Susy the Groomer (32:10)
I'm getting them
Susy the Groomer (32:10)
working working towards it. It's a process. I'm a process. Don't touch that dial yet. Stick around for B-Birds Classroom where Barbara is bringing moisturizers part two to the stage. She will continue to break down the science of hydration, ingredient performance, and how to pick the perfect products to keep the coats healthy and skin protected.
Susy the Groomer (32:30)
Don't wanna miss this. But first a word from our sponsors.
Barbara (34:03)
just for a review to remember that moisturizing in a product is not just looking for a single ingredient or even a single type of ingredient, but it's a a system.
Barbara (34:27)
Moisturization is a system that depends on water availability and humectants to attract and hold water, water retention emollients to fill in and support the structure, as well as occlusives and film formers to slow the water loss and enhance.
Barbara (34:56)
Smootness. So these things
Barbara (34:58)
Humectants, emollients, and occlusives work together to provide moisturization to a product. So now when I look at an ingredient list, I look beyond what is the cleaner, the cleansing system, and I can think of how is this
Barbara (35:28)
Product.
Barbara (35:29)
handling water. What is it? How is it handling water? How is it is it moisturizing? And does it have a complete system? All three types of ingredients. So I looked at a few labels and let's take a look at one of those
Barbara (35:52)
I wanted to look at a couple of brands that I don't normally look at. You
Susy the Groomer (35:57)
Okay.
Barbara (35:58)
know what I'm saying? Because I I tend to l to go to always the same things. I look at I groom. I look at at Best Shot. You know, so I thought, Well, let's look at some products maybe that
Barbara (36:10)
I haven't, you know, like casually mentioned for a while. So I looked at the taro line and I looked at the natural care detangling spray and leave-in conditioner. And I found humectants
Barbara (36:32)
Betain, glycerin, and panthanol. So betane when it's by itself like that, and not cochamidopropyl betane, there's a difference between the two. The betaine itself is a humectant. The cochaminopropylbetaine is a surfactant that cleans and adds
Barbara (37:01)
irritation resistance to the formula. this product also contained hydrolyzed keratin, which is a an emollient in a way and it's also a source of moisture. The moisture source
Barbara (37:24)
Not exactly a humectant, it doesn't sit there and attract more moisture, more moisture, more moisture, it but it does operate in the moisturizing system. And the Cedaryl alcohol, which is kind of a base for conditioner, it acts as a
Barbara (37:48)
emolliant and helps to fill in the spaces on the hair and the sur surface of the skin.
Barbara (37:58)
the quaternum ninety one serves as a occlusive. So this product contained all at the elements of a moisturizing system. It you know, I could say it passed, right?
Susy the Groomer (38:15)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Barbara (38:16)
So I can put it aside now.
Barbara (38:19)
this is the ingredients for the botanique coat milk spray, which I use
Susy the Groomer (38:26)
Make it big
Susy the Groomer (38:27)
by hitting the green the green dot.
Barbara (38:30)
The green chart, okay, big and
Susy the Groomer (38:33)
There you go.
Barbara (38:34)
well I don't know if that's any better really. But well it's not
Susy the Groomer (38:40)
Well, it just what
Susy the Groomer (38:41)
it does is it hides all the rest of the stuff on the screen so it's a little easier to focus on what you're talking about.
Barbara (38:48)
Yeah
Susy the Groomer (38:51)
Ha ha
Barbara (38:53)
Well except I guess I didn't do the color coding yet.
Susy the Groomer (39:00)
Right.
Barbara (39:01)
so but I can do this one but it heart
Susy the Groomer (39:06)
Okay.
Barbara (39:08)
let's look at this botanica, because it's a very popular brand, and I really like this spray. So right away at the front in terms of we got the
Barbara (39:22)
The water there, which is the diluent, clysurin, the A number one humectin, quaternum ninety eight, which I will leave to talk about in a minute, the
Barbara (39:40)
Serantonia siliqua is carobseed, carobseed
Susy the Groomer (39:46)
What?
Barbara (39:47)
hydrolyzed. carobseed extract, which serves as a emollient, fills in the hair follicles. Persea gratissima is avocado fruit extract.
Barbara (40:07)
Now let's talk about the difference between avocado fruit extract and avocado oil, which is also an extract of avocado.
Susy the Groomer (40:19)
Right.
Barbara (40:20)
The fruit extract is water soluble. The oil is not. The fruit extract is used when you want a light moisturizing agent.
Barbara (40:38)
the oil is used as a very strong oil and
Barbara (40:46)
occlusive, I keep losing that word, sorry. And it's a
Susy the Groomer (40:49)
Ha ha
Barbara (40:49)
and and it's a s it's a heavy occlusive, but it's it's heavy and this spray is not heavy. and then I had to ask AI what is polyglycerol six caprillate, polyglycerol three cocoate
Barbara (41:09)
polyglycerol 4 caprate and polyglycerol 6 ricinoliate doing in a coat spray for dogs. And it turns out that that's a blend that is a very effective both emollient and occlusive blend.
Barbara (41:34)
So especially occlusive is the polyglycerol 6 ricinoliate. Okay, so this one also has everything. And I'm gonna tell you that
Barbara (41:50)
One of the one of the qualities of silicones, this doesn't have any silicones, this is no silicones. One of the qualities of silicones is that they are a very, very ultra light weight.
Barbara (42:08)
and they serve as an occlusive. So there it's a breathable film that in that doesn't let the water come out, but it lets air in, it's breathable. It doesn't suffocate the hair or the skin. So that's one of the
Barbara (42:28)
properties of silicones that they're trying very hard to copy. You know, you can copy a silicone oil, but to copy all of its properties is quite
Susy the Groomer (42:39)
Ha ha.
Barbara (42:41)
challenging. but I am gonna get into it because the day has come where silicones are not playing as predominant a role
Barbara (42:56)
in cosmetic products as they used to be and it's all because not because they're not wonderful which they are and multifunctional which they are and lightweight which they are but they don't biodegrade and so they're not environmentally happy. They just sit around for millennium and ultimately
Barbara (43:25)
they degrade but they don't biodegrade. it makes them so
Barbara (43:31)
Products with silicone in them are much less likely to go bad, to spoil, so to speak, because silicone doesn't spoil. It doesn't it doesn't
Susy the Groomer (43:43)
That's helpful.
Barbara (43:46)
get nasty. It's not subjective. I mean there can be bacteria in the water, but it's not gonna do anything with the silicone.
Barbara (43:57)
So the silicone is still gonna do its thing, even if there it's just like got not gonna contribute to oxidation or bacterial spoilage. and this product doesn't have that, but this product has quaternum ninety eight, which is a
Barbara (44:24)
here is the here here it is with the here it is with the col
Susy the Groomer (44:29)
Ha ha.
Barbara (44:30)
color coding. I did do
Susy the Groomer (44:32)
Yes.
Barbara (44:33)
it. but I'm gonna
Susy the Groomer (44:36)
So quaternum ninety eight is all three things?
Barbara (44:40)
It is all three things in one. It's a i it's a
Barbara (44:45)
I'll get through to this thing. I want to tell you that I wanted to use, Chris Christensen Miracle Moisturize because the name even says I'm a moisturizer, right? But I got so pissed off.
Barbara (45:00)
I am not a good scientist. I mean, I have these feelings that emerge.
Susy the Groomer (45:05)
Yeah, you're not supposed
Susy the Groomer (45:07)
have feelings as a scientist.
Barbara (45:09)
but I get so freaking pissed off that I go off on a freaking piss off.
Susy the Groomer (45:18)
I'm seeing it right now. And I don't even know much and I still can see what's wrong.
Barbara (45:22)
But there's even more.
Barbara (45:24)
There's even more. Let me tell you. Chris Christensen came out with two new things about three years ago. One was this miracle moisture shampoo and conditioner and a spray. And then there was miracle repair. So this is what I discovered.
Barbara (45:46)
The Chris Christensen Miracle Moisture Shampoo is the exact ingredient lineup as the Chris Christensen Miracle Repair.
Barbara (46:00)
I'm letting you soak that in.
Barbara (46:01)
worse than this. On the website, the ingredient panel for the Miracle Moisture Shampoo is exactly the same as the Miracle Moisture Conditioner.
Barbara (46:17)
Now the miracle repair conditioner is the same as the miracle repair shampoo, except the anionic surfactants have been removed.
Barbara (46:35)
So that's probably the lineup that they wanna show for the miracle rescue and miracle moisture conditioners both would be the same. But
Susy the Groomer (46:48)
Well this does not instill
Susy the Groomer (46:49)
a lot of confidence in Nexus.
Barbara (46:51)
No,
Barbara (46:52)
and you know what? I discovered this like three years ago when I went, they've got new stuff. I discovered it, and that's why I didn't step up and brag about the new stuff because I got so pissed off. It is not a felony for a distinguished company to have two products that have the same ingredients. A lot of the biggie human
Barbara (47:21)
manufacturers do that.
Barbara (47:25)
It's common in the human beauty i industry, but
Barbara (47:31)
It still is annoying. Why didn't they just call it Miracle Moisture and Repair?
Susy the Groomer (47:41)
Yeah. That would have been easier, yeah. Then they could
Barbara (47:42)
Right? That would have been easier.
Susy the Groomer (47:46)
Yep. Well, that's disappointing.
Barbara (47:48)
But no
Barbara (47:51)
it's just a marketing thing. It's just a marketing tactic to name a set of ingredients under another function, right?
Susy the Groomer (48:05)
Yeah, yep. It's lazy.
Barbara (48:07)
Or it's
Barbara (48:09)
lazy. It's it no, it's just a Chris Christiansen thing.
Barbara (48:16)
there are other ingredients in the Chris Christensen line in the spectrum stuff
Susy the Groomer (48:22)
Go outside.
Barbara (48:22)
that are the same. I mean it's there, it's in the line, it's what other human assholes do.
Barbara (48:37)
Yes, it makes me mad. So let's just get rid of it. Sorry, Chris, there you
Susy the Groomer (48:41)
Throw them away.
Barbara (48:43)
I also looked at but I did have here is a whole little thing explanation about quaternum ninety-eight. It is a a complex quaternary ammonium salt. We also recognized it as a quat because it has
Barbara (49:04)
Quat in the name. and it has N-I-U-M
Susy the Groomer (49:06)
Yep. onium.
Barbara (49:09)
and a number. So anything that has N-I-U-M and a number, it's a quad. So this it's a complex quad. And it's we don't have to get in how it's created, but it's a compound that serves multiple functions in cosmetic formulations, primarily.
Barbara (49:31)
as a hair conditioning agent, a skin conditioning agent, and emollient. So it pri it's prized
Susy the Groomer (49:40)
It does do all three.
Barbara (49:42)
yeah it does do all through. It's prized for its ability to improve the texture and manageability of hair. It also offers skin conditioning benefits. And remember today
Barbara (49:58)
twenty twenty six we're looking for
Barbara (50:02)
products that benefit the skin as well as the hair. So it helps to maintain the skin's moisture balance. So it does everything. it helps to reduce moisture loss from the skin. So that means it serves as an occlusive.
Barbara (50:27)
It helps to attract and retain moisture in the skin. Hallelujah.
Susy the Groomer (50:33)
Yes.
Barbara (50:36)
Hallelujah. It's an emollient. Amen. It's a good,
Susy the Groomer (50:37)
Amen.
Barbara (50:41)
it's a it's a good thing. A good thing.
Susy the Groomer (50:44)
Yeah.
Barbara (50:45)
and I'm proud of Bot Botanique for using a synthetic ingredient.
Barbara (50:53)
because it serves a great purpose. It just really rounds out their formula. and also it's very lightweight. it's a cationic. It's a cationic emollient. A cationic attracts to the hair and skin. It doesn't just rinse off. It stays there for a while.
Susy the Groomer (51:22)
Got a little gripping power.
Barbara (51:24)
It's got gripping power, so we really like that. And that and so I am renewed in my appreciation of the botanique coat milk. I love that shit.
Susy the Groomer (51:39)
Cool.
Barbara (51:41)
So I think I think that's good enough for now.
Barbara (51:46)
I just love the moisturizing system, just gives me such a tool to look deeper into an ingredient list. And
Susy the Groomer (52:00)
Very cool. That's a good graphic.
Barbara (52:02)
I hope that it will
Barbara (52:04)
it is a good graphic and I I love the way the occlusives have the water wrapping around the hair shaft. I I think this
Susy the Groomer (52:18)
It's like you drew it yourself.
Barbara (52:20)
and not only that, it's gotta be shown on it, you know, and
Susy the Groomer (52:25)
Yep. Yep.
Barbara (52:26)
it's got it's got my logo
Barbara (52:29)
my name would have be shown. This this AI so gets me. You know?
Susy the Groomer (52:34)
Ha ha ha.
Barbara (52:37)
I And look it it's even
Susy the Groomer (52:37)
Get it. Very cool to be heard.
Barbara (52:41)
got the groom pod address on it, URL on it, you know? Look at the little slogan
Susy the Groomer (52:47)
Very cool. First class.
Barbara (52:51)
that I just dig so much, knowledge today, healthier pets tomorrow.
Susy the Groomer (52:58)
So the difference between us
Barbara (52:59)
Okay.
Susy the Groomer (52:59)
and the other podcasts out there are that we have cool graphics.
Barbara (53:02)
You like it?
Barbara (53:06)
the healthy skin and hair depend on a balance of water and lipids. Different ingredients, different jobs, better results together. And there
Susy the Groomer (53:19)
Yes.
Barbara (53:20)
down here I am down here. Science for healthier coats. just love it. And I love and you know it's making
Susy the Groomer (53:25)
Perfect. All right. Cool. Good work, Barbara.
Barbara (53:33)
Thank you. I'm glad you like this one.
Susy the Groomer (53:36)
I just need to th show you a little appreciation for the hard work you do here on this podcast. It's so fun, but it is a lot of work and I just appreciate you.
Barbara (53:46)
I'm telling
Barbara (53:47)
you, it is a lot of work. Especially when I have to try to read ingredients off of a picture of the back of a gallon of shampoo. Like thanks, but no thanks. You know, like this
Susy the Groomer (54:04)
Yeah.
Barbara (54:05)
this this pisses me off that that
Barbara (54:09)
They think they're smart requiring us to buy a product before we see the ingredients. That makes no common sense. When you want to be able to look at ingredients is before you purchase something. and the the truth of it
Susy the Groomer (54:26)
Yep. information.
Barbara (54:28)
is there's been there's companies that have been going backwards and
Barbara (54:34)
Goin' back into the closet of concealment.
Susy the Groomer (54:38)
Take off your screen share if you can. What's that?
Susy the Groomer (54:42)
Perfect. That way we can end the show with both of us and our smiling faces. All right. Thanks for being here, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this. I hope the video format is working for everyone. It's taken a little while for people to migrate, so I'm definitely putting it up on the audio feed on the Facebook page.
Susy the Groomer (55:03)
or excuse me on the audio feed on the YouTube feed and then the audio is also on the YouTube feed because I haven't figured out how to turn that off. So so there's two episodes for each actual episode. One of them is just audio, one of them is audio and video. And that way you can see our cool graphics, which we love so much because it's so much fun. Anyway, thanks for being here. Happy grooming everyone. We'll see you next time on the groom pod. Bye now.
Barbara (55:30)
Bye, take care of yourselves.